How Do You Science | Meet a Veterinarian...who does acupuncture!

Welcome back, young scientists. I’m Dr. Universe.  If you’re anything like me, you’ve got lots of big questions about our world. Today I'm talking to WSU veterinarian Jessica Bunch.

• Learn what a veterinarian does and funny things that happen
• Hear about how Dr. Bunch gives acupuncture to all kinds of animals 

Resources You Can Use

• Check out ag careers with Future Farmers of America and 4-H
• Browse the House Rabbit Society or the Humane Society
• Some veterinarians use fear-free methods to keep animals unstressed

 As always, submit burning questions at askdruniverse.wsu.edu.  Who knows where your questions will take us next.

Transcript

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Dr. Universe

Welcome back, young scientists. I'm Dr. Universe, and if you're anything like me, you've got lots of big questions about our world. 

As a science cat, I love going to the veterinarian. That keeps me healthy and gives me a chance to speak to someone who loves science as much as I do. Maybe that's why I was so excited to talk with my friend Jessica Bunch. She's a veterinarian at Washington State University. She even gives acupuncture to all kinds of animals. 

I can't wait for you to hear all about it. Let's get started. 

Jessica Bunch

I knew I wanted to be a veterinarian ever since I was 10. So, it was something I definitely knew at a young age from just having my own animals—and I was active in 4-H. We had, you know, a small farm and then our cats and our dogs and our cows. And so, one of my cows—it was kind of my pet cow—when I was about 10 or 11 got really sick.

And the veterinarian came out and helped her get better. It made such an impression on me that that was when I decided: This is what I want to do. I want to help animals get better. 

Dr. Universe

So, is your job primarily working at the veterinary hospital?  

Jessica Bunch

Yeah, so now it is. I have worked as a general practitioner in private practice. I used to work mostly small animals. I've done large animals, too—cows and agricultural animals. But most of my life I've worked with small animals—so cats and dogs. But then I started getting interested in rehabilitation—so physical therapy for animals, pain management, looking at using acupuncture and massage and some of these other things, Chinese herbs, supplements.

So, I do what we call integrative veterinary medicine. So, it's combining our conventional medication, you know, Western stuff with complementary therapies to try to help with different conditions.  I started doing that when I was in practice, but then the opportunity came for me to come here at WSU and start that service at our teaching hospital.

So, I work at our teaching hospital then, providing those services to our patients as well as teaching students about them.  

Dr. Universe

What is acupuncture?  

Jessica Bunch

So, acupuncture is where we insert very small needles into specific locations on the body to produce acupuncture.  And the biggest being pain relief. So, that's one of the primary uses of acupuncture is for pain.

And these needles are very tiny. They are put into what we call acupuncture points, which are anatomical locations on our body that we transpose from people, from what we know in humans to animals.  And they have kind of higher density in those areas of different like small nerves and blood vessels. And also it affects the fascia, which is the tissue that goes on our muscles and makes up our tendons and our ligaments.

So, we put the little needle in and that starts off a cascade of all kinds of different things that even can sense it all the way up into the brain. So, it helps release happy hormones, our body's natural kind of pain suppressing things, as well as serotonin, which makes you feel good. So, you get kind of a general good mood feeling from it, and it can help conjunctively, so in combination with conventional medicine and other things, for a lot of problems.

But what we understand the most is how it helps more with pain and mood and, you know, affecting the local tissues. If there's like a sore area, you know, to help treat that area and with different things that way. So, there's a lot we don't know, but that's what we do. And it can be complicated, but the basic is those little needles.

And, honestly, they're so small most animals, unless it's in a really uncomfortable spot, don't even notice. I’ve given acupuncture to almost every species of thing you can imagine. I've acupunctured, of course, cats and dogs.  And cats do do better than you think. Cats and dogs, horses, cows, sheep, goat, alpacas, guinea pigs, sparrows,  tortoises, birds of varying types, and oh let's see, oh a prairie dog, and chinchilla. 

Yeah, so a little bit of everything.  

Dr. Universe

What animal was the most challenging to acupuncture? 

Jessica Bunch

That would be, oh, I should say pigs, too. So, for large animals, pigs, because pigs like to scream.  They make a lot of noise.  And they don't appreciate acupuncture as much. Acupuncturing the exotic animals, so some of the birds and like the prairie dog, they're wiggly, right?

And we use very tiny—they call them hand needles. They're really small. Getting those in them and getting them to stay, that’s a challenge. It's like a moving target. 

Dr. Universe

Wow. That's amazing. Do you have to have someone to help hold the animals?  

Jessica Bunch

One of the technicians or nurses that are trained in proper restraint or the students will hold for me.

We try to do everything when we work with animals in what we call fear-free methods. So, you know, doing everything within what they'll accept, and I'm not going to try to force stuff on them. I'm going to do what they'll let me do. So, you know, using treats and positive reinforcement.

With exotics and large animals, it's a little bit different, and you know, it's a little harder to do. But sometimes it may be that if I can just get them in a, like a small box.  And then I can just quickly, as they're kind of moving around, get an idea and quickly put the needle in. Sometimes less restraint is actually better.

And then I can get those in and see how many stay in. And even if we're not right on an acupuncture point— When you put a needle in, you're still going to get a physiologic effect. That's still going to give you some benefit. So, even if you're not quite right on, you can still benefit them, and even with just a very few needles.

So, we also have other treatment modalities that can be done with less hands-on. So, we use like electromagnetic wave therapy, laser therapy, things like that. And some of those you can use just gentle to no-contact and still potentially be helping increase blood flow to an area. The other probably favorite thing of mine about being a veterinarian, too, is we have to think outside the box. 

We have to kind of constantly come up with new ways of doing things and figuring out ways to like bandage a certain thing or make a cast for this certain thing this way. Or how are we going to do this thing for this animal and what they have to function and do and. What will he tolerate, right? So, it's a lot of trial and error and experiments, but it also is fun and exciting. 

Dr. Universe

Do you think that animals, like non-human animals, know that you're trying to help them?  

Jessica Bunch

That's always a good question. It's so hard to know, right? I do think some do learn that, especially more like cats and dogs. Or they maybe recognize that they feel better in that environment when something's happening because I do have some of my regular patients who, over time, the owners say they get excited to come now. Is that because they really like to see us because of course we use like treats and toys and we're kind of doing the nicer things? Like I don't have to do as much now besides acupuncture when I do that. I don't have to do as much like giving shots and stuff like that. So, I'm doing a lot of massage, which is like petting, you know. Those kind of things. But I do have some, they get into a routine, and they're used to it. And they come in, and they'll get into the bed, and they'll lay there like, “kay, it's time. Let's have my session.”

And, I think, is it habitual? Have they just become acclimated and know that's what they should do and they're going to get a reward out of that? Or is the reward also that they know that they feel better? So, it's, you know, it's hard to know, right? But I, I want to think, in my mind as well, I'd like to say that I think they know they feel better too. 

Dr. Universe

Oh, I love that.  Do you have any like funny stories about being a veterinarian?  

Jessica Bunch

When I've worked with— like the prairie dogs did not appreciate my giving the needles very much, so it was like I was chasing this little prairie dog around on the ground. He couldn't walk very well, but he could walk some, and that's why I was acupuncturing him. And he's making noises, and I'm like trying to follow and just  put in needles and pick them up as they drop everywhere.

And I think he just like covered my whole room at one point. And we were just like, “Well, we just got to go with it.”

You know, some of our patients that are retrievers, that are more in the retrieving breeds, they get really used to doing— We have an underwater treadmill. So, we have a device, and they walk on a treadmill, but it's with water.

And so, they're doing this with resistance, and we get them trained to do that. And some of them, you give them what we call bumper, which is just a retrieving type toy that they used to practice retrieving. And you can just stick that in their mouth, and they'll just be happy as a clam. I've had a couple of pictures where they're just, they look like they're smiling with the bumper in their mouth, and they're just walking as fast as they can. Their tail’s up, just so happy.

And when they come to see me, I love when they open the door to the treadmill, and they all just run inside like, “Okay, let's go. It's time to go. Let's do my water therapy,” you know? So, those things are always, I think, really cute and fun. 

We have to find their motivation. And sometimes that ends up being trickier than you think. We had one dog that couldn't walk.  This is a little funnier story. So, he couldn't walk. And we were working on trying to encourage him to walk, and we had him in a big sling that had wheels, and so we were trying him to walk, and he's a big dog, and he just was like, “No, no. I'm not doing it.”

And we were like, “Come on,” you know. We're doing encouraging and cookies and stuff, and he's like, “No, I'm not going to do it.”  We found some toys he ended up liking, which he kind of went for, but what we found the most was another dog.  Little dogs? Now, we didn't get him too close to them, but little dogs, he was all of a sudden like, “What is that?”

And as soon as we have like a little dog several feet in front of him, he would, like,  just go—just take off as fast as he could to try to get that. And so, and his legs were moving great when he was trying to pull himself. And so, we were like, “Okay, we found your motivation.” 

Dr. Universe

It's chasing little dogs. 

Jessica Bunch

He's like, I'm going to chase, you know? And so, he was just like, “I'm going to go.” And then, eventually we found another toy that he had as much excitement for. And so, once we had those two, they were like, “Okay, now we know your motivation.” And it was hilarious. It was funny. It was a really funny dog. It was hilarious. 

Dr. Universe

Wow. You really have to try and get inside your patient's heads to figure out. 

Jessica Bunch

Yeah. And we do. You know, you have just like with people, everyone, they all have their own personalities.  They all have their own problems. We have a lot of dogs, too, that have, you know, anxiety and different things that way.

And one of the ways we can help with anxiety in animals, too, is exercise. So, exercise and environmental enrichment and things like that. So, that's another part of what I end up talking with owners about. If we can make them feel better and more comfortable so they can move more, that's also going to help with their anxiety, which is going to decrease their pain.

I get to have the luxury of can take my time to work with those patients because they're coming to me for those things. But I can sit and really try to work with them versus if they were just kind of going in for their routine yearly stuff. The career I'm in now—and this is one of the reasons why I went to what I'm doing—is my appointments are much longer. I spend much more time with my patients, and I have to do my treatments and work with them. So, not everybody has that luxury, but that's part of the fun that I was really happy to go into eventually and being able to do that. 

Dr. Universe

Do you have a favorite kind of animal patient? 

Jessica Bunch

My favorite kind—  I always go back and forth if I'm more of a cat person or a dog person,  and I tell you I really am 50-50. I have both. I have four dogs, and I have three indoor cats and two barn cats, and I love them all for different reasons, you know, and I honestly can't tell you if I have a preference.

Dr. Universe

That's relatable.  And I say that as a cat myself, it's relatable.  

Jessica Bunch

Yeah. I do really, truly love both of them. So yeah.  

Dr. Universe

What about exotic animals? What's your favorite kind of exotic animal? 

Jessica Bunch

My favorite exotic animal, I would say is, I think ferrets. And I like rabbits, too. Ferrets and rabbits. I have had bunnies before, so I have had a couple rabbits. 

I really would love a ferret, but they are troublesome little guys, and I cannot do that with one. I think you feel like you pretty much kind of have to just have ferrets if you're gonna have them. 

Dr. Universe

Cause they get into trouble?  

Jessica Bunch

Yeah, you can have nice enclosures for stuff, but if you want to let them out to run around or take them on walks, because you can take them on walks with little harnesses and things. You know, it's just will they get along with, you know, cats and dogs, right? So, like, you always worry about that. I feel like they could be a little bit more trouble. 

The other thing you have to watch out for, especially with rabbits, because I know people who have rabbits that let them out and stuff in their house, and you can litter box train them, but they like to chew on things, right?

So, you have to basically, like, rabbit proof your house. Like, there's a House Rabbit Society, where you can learn all the things you need to do to have a house rabbit. And a lot of it is proofing your house.  It's like getting a baby. 

Dr. Universe

Do you have any advice for a kid who knows that they want to be a veterinarian?

Jessica Bunch

Mm hmm. Yeah, absolutely. So, I will say it does take a lot of schooling. Okay, so you gotta like school. And it doesn't mean that you always like school. I mean, there's parts that you don't enjoy, but you have to be open-minded that learning is very, very important, and that you're going to be in school for a while.

So, paying attention in school, especially in your science classes. So, science is really important, and you just want to make sure that you are trying hard and being a good student. Having, you know, better grades does help you when you get further along, and you get into college, and you're doing all that when you're trying to get into veterinary school.

Because getting into veterinary school There's about half as many veterinary schools as there are medical schools, and so the amount of people that apply to that school— It can be competitive. 

Then also just get out there and get experience with animals, even if it's just raising your own animals. If you're on a farm, and you're involved in like 4-H, FFA. If you, you know, can shadow eventually at a veterinary clinic or a shelter or, you know, the Humane Society. You know help petsit. Any kind of experience you can get with animals.

And I do think It's very helpful, if you think you want to be a veterinarian, to make sure you do end up spending some time at a veterinary clinic so that you can really see what happens. Especially as you get older—so maybe when you're more in like middle school  or high school. Spend some time at a veterinary clinic because, as much of fun as it sounds, it's not always,  you know, the fun, we're-just-going-to play-with-puppies-and-kittens.

There are things that are sad, too, right? So, animals get sick. We have to help them sometimes, you know—we always say pass over the rainbow bridge. You know, there's things that we have to help them with that can be challenging for us and sad for us, too. And so, you kind of have to know that there's that part of the job, too. 

And I think that, for all those sad parts and those hard parts, and it is a hard job. And so, if you have that passion. You have that as your purpose, and you think that's what you want, then, then it's absolutely worth going for. And the good outweighs the bad. But just know there are bad days, too.

And so, I think working at a clinic or at least shadowing and visiting a clinic  when you're a little older, it gives you a better perspective of what all is involved, that there's all kinds of different things. And then if you see that, and you see the good and the bad and you're like, “Hey, this is still for me,” then, then it probably is for you.

And it's something that even if you don't know that's what you want to do now, but you come to that later on in life, that's fine too. A lot of the students I work with now are everywhere from they knew like me when they were 10, and they wanted to be a vet to teachers, lawyers, architects, all kinds of other professions, which they decided all of a sudden this is not for me and decided their calling was that they needed to come back and be a veterinarian, and they did a second career.

You're never too old to go back to school and learn more things. And that's the one thing too: Even when you finish school, you always still keep learning. We always are doing more education for ourselves because things change. Medicine changes. Science changes, right? Things that used to be mystical are just because we didn't understand them, you know? And we learn more and more things. And so, we always want to keep learning—no matter what career or profession you want to go in.  Always, always keep an open mind and keep learning.  

Dr. Universe

That's all for this episode, friends. So many thanks to Jessica Bunch of Washington State University. As always, if you've got a science question for me, you can submit it at askdr universe.wsu.edu.

That's A-S-K-D-R-U-N-I-V-E-R-S-E dot W-S-U dot E-D-U. Who knows where your questions will take us next.